Timi Brennan was a Beetlejuice fan who tried his hand at cosplaying and suddenly found himself with a side gig he’d never imagined! He’s also a YouTuber known as ALTERN84M – sharing his thoughts on horror films new & old!

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends! Spread the word!! You can also help support our content by becoming a Patron at Patreon.com/HorrorFam

LINKS for More Timi Brennan:

• Timi Brennan / ALTERN84M on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Altern84m
• Timi Brennan on Instagram: https://instagram.com/altern84m
• Timi Brennan as Beetlejuice on Instagram: https://instagram.com/betelgeuse.lives

Be sure to scroll all the way to the end of the transcript so you can also watch Timi’s masterful mini-documentary on the 1962 body horror b-movie oddity The Brain That Wouldn’t Die!

FULL Written Transcript: HorrorFam.com Podcast Interview with Isaiah Swanson

*HorrorFam.com Podcast Theme Music Plays*

Lauren Spear: Hi, Everyone! Welcome to the HorrorFam.com Podcast; episode number 25! I’m Lauren Spear and my guest today is Timi Brennan, also known as “alternate form” — A, L, T, E, R, N, number eight, number four, letter M — and he is a professional Beetlejuice performer. Not to be confused with an impersonator or even a cosplayer.

And he’s also a YouTuber who talks about horror, B-movies, sci-fi, film & editing techniques, and a whole lotta other stuff.

Here he is! Hi, Timi!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Hello! Uh… No one’s ever kind of… described me that way. I like it!

Lauren: *laughs* Welp… ummm.

Would YOU like to elaborate on your introduction and tell the audience in your own words what you do?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeahh. Well, I’m primarily a videographer. Video artist. You know, I like to make movies and stuff. But, as with many of us, I’m kind of just getting on YouTube and sharing your thoughts… Which also turned into part of that expression.

But the Beetlejuice thing is… It’s funny that that you said, “Not to be confused with a cosplayer” because that was literally all I was trying to do when this whole thing got started.  I’ve just always liked that Beetlejuice outfit with the tour guide hat and the coat and it, like…  Nobody EVER did that, y’know? It was always the stripes!

And so I’ve always really liked that outfit. And then I dressed up as Beetlejuice and I went to this big Tim Burton-themed convention, and I absolutely BLASTED the costume contest! Mostly because, like, it was decided by the crowd and I had been there for five hours just like, you know, staying in character and taking pictures with, like, hundreds of people.

And so by the time the contest started, it was just like… I had kind of made like a little bit of a friendship with every single person there. And, you know, the costume—! I really like accuracy. So the costume was pretty good. The makeup was meh. But the costume was really good! And my impression was good. So, I…

I just ended up doing so well that I was like, “Well, I don’t ever want to do a contest again.” So, I just asked the people who ran the event, “So, can I just, like, HOST from now on…?”

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): And, so, since then, that’s been affording me other opportunities. I officiated somebody’s wedding as Beetlejuice. I just go to people’s houses and will do parties and, you know, whatever.

Right now, I’m still recovering from Beetlejuice. I’m growing my beard back in! *strokes his beard*

Lauren Spear: Oh! *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Since it’s the end of October, I’m all done with my gigs for the year.

Lauren Spear: Oh, okay!

So, you have like a set time period where you’re just Beetlejuice non-stop?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeahhh. Pretty much. ‘Cause I just… I’m…

Like I said, I never wanted to be like THAT as a performer. I like performing, but Beetlejuice is kind of exhausting for a number of reasons.

*speaking as Beetlejuice* The first part would be the voice!

*returning to normal Timi voice* Y’know?

Lauren Spear: Oh, yeah!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: That’s just REALLY rough. I’ve got a 9lb bag of cough drops that I take with me.

Lauren Spear: Oh, man… Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And then there’s the makeup and having to shave and all that stuff. So, it’s kind of a little bit more demanding than I would want it to be.

So, yeah, I just kind of pack it all into October. That’s usually when people hit me up and ask for appearances anyway.

So, the rest of the year, I’m just sort of like focused on my video work or getting prepared for Halloween by getting another costume put together. Or, of course, building the carousel hat that I’ve been going back-and-forth with your parents about.

Lauren Spear: Yeah…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. So, it’s much more of a side gig. But it also just sort of ran away with it. Y’know? It’s not something I was planning on doing. But…

I’m an enormous Tim Burton fan and I always have been.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): And Beetlejuice has…

Maybe because Nightmare Before Christmas is so… uh… seasonal?

Lauren Spear: Yeah…?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Like, that used to be my favorite, but Beetlejuice kept moving more and more into the foreground for me. And I know that movie so well now that it’s just one of those things that…

There are just some movies that are just written on your BONES, and that’s one of those for me!

Lauren Spear: *laughs* Yeah!

The cast and crew screening of Beetlejuice was the first movie I ever saw in a movie theater!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: *chuckles* Wow.

Lauren Spear: So, um, yeah. *laughs* I can relate to that.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Wow. Yeah. It might have been the first movie I saw.

I know The Nightmare Before Christmas…

That was when Tim Burton as a name finally showed up on my radar. Because it was just… It was basically Nightmare Before Christmas came out and I saw the trailer and I was like, “Okay, this is my favorite movie now!” Like, that was IT!

Lauren Spear: *chuckles*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Just that trailer — that anybody watching probably remembers — where the little kid pulls the shrunken head out of the box.

Lauren Spear: Oh, yeah. *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And then the parents start screaming and it flashes to black and says “This film is not yet rated!”

And they were saying it was animated and I was so confused by that because there had never been a stop-motion feature film [in my lifetime] before! So, saying that the movie was “animated” just didn’t even make sense to me.

So, as soon as I saw that trailer, “This is my favorite movie ever!” And then I started finding out “Oh! This is the Edward Scissorhands guy!” then “This is the Beetlejuice guy!” and “This is the Batman guy!”

And so that… That all started to, like, compound.

And then the first… Nightmare Before Christmas. Like I said, that was my favorite Tim Burton movie for the longest time. And My favorite movie.

Going to see it was probably the first time I went to the movies without my parents.

Lauren Spear: Ohhh. Okay.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And it… This is kind of an appropriate topic for the show because

I was NOT a horror fan as a kid! I was terrified of horror movies!!

Lauren Spear: Oh. Okay.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: I always liked the spookier things… Like, I watched the Beetlejuice cartoon and when I watched He-Man, I was much more into Skeletor than the heroes. You know?

But, man, when that movie starts and there’s just, like, the little scarecrow Jack Skellington all the way in the background going “BUM. BUM. BUM.” And, like, I just leaned over to my brother and was like, “I think we’re in the wrong theater.”

Lauren Spear: *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Because I was scared!! But then it kicks in and it was all that kind of Tim Burton family-friendly spooky campiness that just was my whole world back then.

Lauren Spear: *laughs*

So, that kind of ignited your love for horror that persisted, or did it…?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeahh… Yeah, I guess.

Because it really was like… It wasn’t until I was into my teens that I could even handle like a Rated R horror movie.

I, for some reason, you know… I had seen, like, Twin Peaks as a kid. And I had seen Child’s Play. And, I dunno, like, Body Snatchers… Random! Really random! Just, like, maybe because there was a night when my siblings couldn’t get me out of the room so I ended up seeing whatever movie I shouldn’t have seen.

Lauren Spear: *chuckles*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And it would terrify me to my soul! And then, like…

But I was Beetlejuice for Halloween. I was a skeleton for Halloween. You know? I was Batman. I was always into the darker, spookier stuff.

And then, like, I dunno. It was just like something switched in my brain one day. I don’t even remember it happening. But I went from being terrified of horror movies to, like, being incapable of being scared by them. You know?

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: There was never a period in my life where I could enjoy them the way they’re meant to be!

Lauren Spear: *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Where I could just sit there and be like, “Oh, this is fun! Oh, I’m scared! Oh, it’s fun! Oh, I’m scared!” It was either “I’m too scared to even LOOK at the screen” or it was like “ah, yeah. I see what they’re trying to do there.”

Lauren Spear: Yeah. Yeah. *chuckles*

We actually say on HorrorFam.com that we don’t recommend horror movies for anyone under five…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Hmm.

 Lauren Spear: …because there’s been studies done that show that children under five can’t tell the difference between reality and fiction.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Interesting.

Lauren Spear: So, seeing a horror movie can, like, actually damage them. And I think the only reason I’m more-or-less “okay” is because my parents were MAKING the effects that ARE the scares for those movies.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: So, it’s like… I was there petting the Critters and kissing the Critter ball. And, you know, dipping my hand into the Blob and stuff like that.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: *chuckles* Right…

Lauren Spear: So, I was very aware that what was on screen was FAKE because I had interacted with it in reality. But…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Maybe. Maybe a lot of behind-the-scenes footage for younger kids if you’re showing them stuff.

Lauren Spear: *laughs* Yeah. Well. To be safe, maybe DON’T show them to kids under five.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. Fair enough.

Lauren Spear: But, yeah; I don’t think that your being terrified as a child is unusual. I think that that’s…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: No…

Lauren Spear: …your brain going, “Oh my God that’s a MONSTER! I’m scared!” You know? That’s how it was protecting you!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. Yeah…

Lauren Spear: *reassuring laugh*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: But I was just… I dunno. I was scared of the dark!

Lauren Spear: Well, I still am!

Both: *laugh*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: You know that scene in Batman — the Jack Nicholson one — where Alicia takes off her mask…?

Lauren Spear: Mm! Yeah, yeah!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And the score is like this violin coming in…

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: I didn’t see her face for the first FIVE YEARS after that movie came out!

Lauren Spear: *chuckles*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Like, I hid behind CHAIRS I was so scared of what that face might be! And then when I finally saw it, I was like, “Oh. It’s just a little scar on her face.” And that was all it was…

Maybe that was it! Maybe THAT was how I got over my fear of horror movies.

I was more scared of the POTENTIAL scare than how scary it really was.

Lauren Spear: What gets me is — I wrote about this on HorrorFam.com! — that genres that AREN’T horror are often MORE scary because you’re not expecting it!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: Like,

There’s a scene in Detective Pikachu…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: *falls back laughing*

Lauren Spear: …where there’s a Ditto that has morphed into a human and OH MY GOD. WHY?!?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: One of the biggest scares I’ve ever seen hit, like, a theater full of people was in Murder by Numbers. The Sandra Bullock — early Ryan Gosling — movie. And just out of NOWHERE there is a baboon in the shadows that just comes out into the light! Like right at the camera.

And… yeah. It’s like a really down-to-earth sort of procedural dark cop movie and you just don’t see a baboon coming. So, it’s like WAY worse than Freddy Kreuger popping out of a bathtub!

Lauren Spear: Yeah. Who’s expecting a baboon! *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Who’s expecting a baboon in a Sandra Bullock movie?!

Lauren Spear: *laughs* Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: But, yeah. Horror’s interesting because, like…

I’m kind of confused sometimes by people who are DEDICATED horror fans.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): Like, I’m overall MOVIES. Like, I like dark stuff. Whenever I try to do anything, it comes out dark. But… um…

Lauren Spear: Yeah. I’m also sort of naturally morbid. *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Right? *chuckles* But then I ask people…

Because the whole point of a movie is to kind of experience the emotions that the filmmakers are basically manipulating you into. They’re trying to make you said, they’re trying to make you laugh, whatever it is.

You wouldn’t want to watch a comedy if it didn’t make you laugh. You wouldn’t be interested in a drama if it didn’t, like, tear at your heartstrings. So, why would you watch a horror movie if you’re not scared? You know?

And then I ask people, you know, “So, do you like these so much because you’re scared of them?” Because that would be… Because then it’s like, “Why do you like to be SCARED?” You know?

And this is not me criticizing that people enjoy it that way. It’s just kind of a curious thing to me. Like, how people enjoy movies.

And horror is, like ALL genres of movies: Most of them are bad. Right? Like, MOST of the movies are bad. And then there’s like five or six GREAT…you know. Even if you look at, like, the slasher films. Right? You have… There’s so many sequels that you’ve got like one or two really good Freddy Kreuger movies and then you’ve got like eight campy bad ones. That are, you know, watchable in their own right, but it’s like a BIG bulk of stuff that, like, is more of a cash grab. And then like one or two, you know, really artful thoughtful pieces of horror.

Lauren Spear: Hm. For me… I dunno. I can’t speak for everyone. But, for ME, one of the reasons that I like horror is because the subgenres of horror that I like generally has rules to it. Like, I like a lot of Creature Features and those creatures usually have very distinct rules to how they’re defeated.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Okay.

Lauren Spear: And I also like the triumph of Good over Evil! Which is one of the reasons I’m not as into movies from the 1970s — because they almost always had the kind of “Feel Bad” endings where it’s like…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Mmhmm.

Lauren Spear: That’s not what I’m here for.

Real life has enough Feel Bad endings. I don’t need that in my entertainment.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: *chuckles* Right…

Lauren Spear: So, I do like that there’s — in the subgenres [of horror] that I like — more set rules and Good over Evil and…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: …it’s a, you know. A cath…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: A cathartic triumph!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: You know…

Have you watched the Chucky TV show…?

Lauren Spear: I have not. No.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: You have not. Okay.

Lauren Spear: Not yet.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: I’ve been watching that. As you know.

Lauren Spear: Yes.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: That’s what I made my Child’s Play video for.

Lauren Spear: Yes.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And…

Lauren Spear: Oh! For the Audience!!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Oh!

Lauren Spear: He has made a recap of all of the “Chucky” films leading up into the TV series. So, if you want a quick recap or if you just, for whatever reason, don’t want to watch the movies (I don’t know why you would, but…)

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: *laughs*

Lauren Spear: You could watch his Clip Notes version of the movies on ALTERN84M — which I spelled out at the beginning.

Okay. Go on. Sorry.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. It… So, I just binged the first two seasons and I had to just stop. And it might be because kind of what you’re saying.

Like, they keep having these little victories over Chucky but, because it’s a TV show where they keep having to, like, bring him back and keep doing more Chucky stuff — because no one’s going to watch it without him doing murders and stuff — that there’s kind of no Victory in it! You know? It just continually is like people getting killed and then, like, everybody getting screwed over. Even though it’s, like, pretty funny and campy… It’s just like… I don’t know. Like, I just started feeling kinda like DEPRESSED after watching it for four days straight.

Lauren Spear: Yeah. I think that could be a problem with our, you know, wanting to BINGE TV shows…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: Maybe if it were more spaced out…? But, at the same time, I just…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: I can’t take too much of…

Especially if it’s, like, GOOD people — people that you care about — getting just THRASHED…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Right.

Lauren Spear: …week after week after week. That would get to me too. I can’t. I can’t do that.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yuuuuuuuup. Anybody… Anybody whose been through the show: They did Nadine wrong. That’s all I’ll say.

Lauren Spear: Oh, okay.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: But, yeah, I’ve noticed that too. Because there’s a lot more, it seems — you can correct me if I’m wrong about this — but it SEEMS like there’s a lot more women in the horror fandom, I’ve noticed. Like, there’s of course guys, but it is a LARGELY female interest.

Which is kind of interesting because there’s also the female audience for True Crime!

Lauren Spear: Oh, yeah!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: It’s such a big deal.

Lauren Spear: True Crime is very large with women.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: Not ME, in particular…

Both: *laugh*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Right. Because, again, those are stories that end all shitty and sad!

Lauren Spear: Yeah!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: But, yeah, the… Because I’ve noticed that as well. They really like all of the morbidity of it, but sort of have a cut-off at “I don’t want to depress myself with all of this dark stuff though.”

Which is why I think why Tim Burton resonates so well!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): Because it’s no-holds-barred, you know, “We’re going there!” You know?

Beetlejuice, even though it’s not like a GORY horror comedy, it is… It doesn’t’ shy away from what it IS, you know?

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: It goes as far into that genre as it can, but then it just stays in this sort of relatable space where it still has nice characters.

Lauren Spear:Yes.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: It still has really relatable characters. Which maybe that’s a good segue into the sequel? Because I know you wanted to talk about that!

Lauren Spear: Yeah! But also, just look at Tim Burton’s girlfriends, you know?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: *laughs*

Lauren Spear:It’s like… He definitely appeals to women! *laughs* You know?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yes. This is true.

Lauren Spear: You’re not pulling those kinda babes and NOT appealing to a woman audience!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: *laughs* Absolutely.

And that’s kind of been the pain of my life just in terms of getting graphic t-shirts! Tim Burton — and especially Beetlejuice and The Nightmare Before Christmas — that stuff is all aimed at women! In, like, the merchandising. And I just come in and I’m like, “Oh, look at this cool hoodie!!” and it’s, like, you know… a little crop-top hoodie.

Lauren Spear: *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Or something totally cut for girls. Or, like, it’s a cool design but it’s way more, like, flowery or something. It’s just like… Or it’s just like perfumes and fingernails and all this stuff! And I’m like, “Well, where’s all the GUY stuff?!”

It’s, you know. It’s aimed at women and I think Tim Burton MADE Beetlejuice aiming it at, like, a young female audience. Like…

I guess, to some, the Maitlands are the protagonists. Like, in a literal sense. But, I think by the time the film… The whole, kinda, weird non-formulaic tapestry of how the characters are in that movie, you could come away from it just saying that

Lydia is the protagonist.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): You know?

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Like, it’s even interesting to look at who the… Who’s even the villain? Because Beetlejuice is hardly in it. You know?

Lauren Spear: *chuckles*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And then, like, Lydia only deals with him like what? Twice? I mean, she deals with the snake thing, but she like gets him out [of the model] and has the wedding thing and meets him earlier on, but… you know?

Lauren Spear: Yeah…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: If that’s the antagonist and the protagonist, that’s very little interaction. So, to me, the two extremes in that movie, character-wise, is Lydia and Otho.

Lauren Spear: Hmm.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Like, I feel Otho…

Otho is a PURE villain in that movie. He’s the one who is kind of like the Devil in everybody’s ears.

Lauren Spear: Heh. Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Telling them to make the situations worse. And he’s the one who, you know, he gets his hands on the book and it makes… It elevates the. What do you call that? The…

It raises the stakes! At the end.

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And then Beetlejuice kinda has to save people and, like, he just ends up just basically like just destroying Otho and sending him away. He doesn’t even get to be there for the epilogue! You know?

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Even Beetlejuice got to be there in the epilogue!

Lauren Spear: Yeah!

Both: *laugh*

Lauren Spear: Yeah. Hmm.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: That and the reason I was bringing up relatability was that I think Lydia is such a great template for making a relatable, distraught teen character. And I don’t think that the Astrid character [in Beetlejuice Beetlejuice] was nearly as well-written and executed.

Lauren Spear: No… No. I didn’t either.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah, it was… and I think it’s really simple WHY! It’s not even that complicated.

Like, Lydia… First off, you have the original script for the original movie, which was that

Lydia was separated into two characters.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): She was originally the little sister and the teen sister. And the Lydia character was just kind of, like, she was JUST the “My whole life is a dark room.” And just attitude and sass.

And then the little sister character was the sweet, like, “Oh, no, don’t hurt the ghosts! They’re nice people!”

So, they put those two together and they ended up with, like, a more well-rounded character who was, you know, tormented and dark — but was also very sweet and empathetic.

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: But they also… When she was doing all of her, “I am strange and unusual,” she was being overdramatic because they were going like, “That’s what teenagers are like!” They’re overdramatic! It’s always the end of the world for teenagers!

Lauren Spear: Yeah. Exactly!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Right. And then, like, Astrid…she…

She was never played for laughs. Every time she was being a sassy teenager, it was like, “There you go, Sister! You’re right!”   

Lauren Spear: *chuckles* Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: She never really was like put in her place in that way. You know?

Lauren Spear: Yeah…

Though I’m a bit… You know. I’m 40 [in 8 weeks] and, like, I don’t have any children. And I’m not around children because why would I be? I’m… you know.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: That would be weird.

Lauren Spear: I’m 40 without kids and that would be WEIRD! *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: So, I don’t know if that’s like how teenagers are being raised these days! Like, I know that we were put in our place [for rampant sass], but are kids today? I don’t know!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: Maybe not?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. You know. I mean. It is kind of like a… There’s…

There’s things that are difficult about writing in Hollywood nowadays because people are kinda so hypervigilant about saying the “wrong” thing. But I still think that, like…

I don’t know! I mean, there’s always been that kind of character where they… They’re not really written with FLAWS in mind. You know?

Lauren Spear: Yeah. She just came off…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: But there’s also just…

Lauren Spear: …as very flat.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. Yeah. And it totally wasn’t Jenna Ortega! She’s played a myriad of characters with very different personalities.

Lauren Spear: Oh yeah! She’s fine!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. But it’s a thing I’ve noticed in movies where I’m not relating to the characters very well.

The question comes up in my mind: If you were to put that character into situation X — whatever that situation is — how would they react?

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And if I can’t tell you how the character would react, then that character isn’t written with enough personality.

Lauren Spear: Mmhmm.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: You know?

Lauren Spear: Yeah. Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Like, okay. Like Beetlejuice, for example. HUGE personality! I could tell you ANY situation with him!

Lauren Spear: Mmhmm.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: You know? Going to… Withdrawing some money from the bank! And you can just start SEEING how he would handle that!

Lauren Spear: *laughs* Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: But then it’s like, “How would Astrid handle that?” I dunno. But you could write it to where she would be all sassy. You could write it to where she would be the only one doing it right. You could write it to where she doesn’t know how to do it because she’s young and inexperienced.

It’s just not very depthful characterization!

EDITOR’S NOTE: The following section contains spoilers for Beetlejuice Beetlejuice (2024). If you’d like to avoid them, scroll until you see another note that looks like this one!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): But that was really like…

That and the underuse of the Monica Bellucci character.

Lauren Spear: Oh, yeah. What a waste! *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah!

Lauren Spear: Though, at the same time, there was SO MUCH going on!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. I feel like if they had taken the ghost kid out of the movie and, like, saved him for a third film or something…

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: …and just made this about Beetlejuice’s wife bringing him back into the business or whatever.

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Then that would’ve just been cool! But they had two FULL-BLOWN potential antagonists who were actively trying to destroy our protagonists! And, like, that was just too much!!

Lauren Spear: Yeah. My parents liked the movie. My husband loved the movie.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: And

I have…mixed…feelings [about Beetlejuice Beetlejuice].

Lauren Spear: It felt like there was five different plots going on at once whereas the first film is just so tight.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: And it was a lot more like watching episodes of the cartoon. Which I loved! But…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: That’s true! *chuckles*

Lauren Spear: But it was kind of more like binging five different episodes of the cartoon all in one sitting!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: And somehow THAT was also a sequel to the original. And…eh… There were things that I liked and things that I didn’t.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: Some people have said that Lydia wasn’t the same character. But it’s like, “Are YOU the same person you were as a teenager?”

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah…

Lauren Spear: If so, I’m concerned for you! *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Right.

Lauren Spear: But, also, I think that her being kind of stamped on is… You know. Living with her step-mother who is a bit narcissistic…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: *chuckles* Yeah. Yeah.

Lauren Spear: And that’s kind of WITH her personality now with just kind of being ground into the dirt over the years since Beetlejuice One.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Right. Yeah.

Lauren Spear: It seemed fitting! It’s like, okay, she’s acting like somebody who was around…um… She’s the daughter of a narcissistic mother and then ended up with a narcissistic boyfriend. And that seems…you know…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: That’s how it is! *chuckles*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And was capable of speaking to the dead from an early age as well! *chuckles*

Lauren Spear: Yeah!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Which I can’t imagine is super healthy.

Lauren Spear: No, it… That wouldn’t be. *chuckles*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: I vote…

So, I LOVED it.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): It was flawed. For sure. But it did one thing right that all of these legacy sequels get so wrong. Which is, “Here’s where we left off with the last characters…”

Lauren Spear: Mmhmm.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: “Here’s where they are in the next step.” It’s always…

Like, with Luke Skywalker in the Star Wars sequels — he went through all this stuff in-between this movie and the next one! And we’re all like, “Wait! Why is he like this hermit and doesn’t do jedi stuff and isn’t doing anything he’s known for?!”

Lauren Spear: Yeah?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And it’s like “Oh, it’s because there was all this interesting stuff that happened off screen! Don’t worry about it!”

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: But, like, if everybody was in the next phase of where they should have been, regardless of the time that had passed… They just said, “All right. There’s been almost no character development since then but they are in, like, the next place.” So, it’s like Lydia…

The fact that they stuck to Lydia being a psychic, to me, was so great. I was so worried that they were just going to, like, you know, FORGET that she was capable of just talking to ghosts like they were just people in a room. But they stuck with that.

Delia’s characterization was PERFECT. I think she stole the movie! Honestly.

Lauren Spear: Oh, yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Like, she was more on point — and this will be like sacrilege to say, but…!

She was more on point than Michael Keaton even was.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): And then, like, Beetlejuice just having a whole business! That was something that I never considered!

Lauren Spear: *chuckles*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: That was a really good idea! You know? Like, and the fact that he was just hanging out with all these guys with shrunken heads. I just have this, like, head canon of him being in the Waiting Room like stuck next to that guy for just like whatever – 15 years? – and being like, “You know, we should go into business together.”

Lauren Spear: Yeah. No. Totally.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: “Know any other guys with small heads who don’t talk?!”

Lauren Spear: *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: So, that’s all it was: Great characterization!

Lauren Spear: Well, he was always an entrepreneur! Like, with the flyer and everything.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah!

Lauren Spear: It seemed natural.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. To take him and say, “Here’s where he would be next.” Like, he actually succeeded in putting that business together.

Lydia was raised in this, like, New York socialite kind of “we know this person” and networking kind of thing… Why wouldn’t she end up on a TV show?

Lauren Spear: Yeah! That happens!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And a little bit shaken from previous events. Yeah! And, so…

And Charles! *laughs* Getting eaten by a shark!! It was just the greatest thing ever! You know?

It was… I can’t even complain about any of my issues that I have with it and I had a LOT. It was just so fairly done. It was… It was… It was just a good sequel! And we don’t really get those anymore.

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: We get very contrived sequels.

Lauren Spear: Well, I didn’t just straight love it like my family did but, like, I do LIKE it. I should make that clear.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah!

Lauren Spear: I did like it. I just…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: It’s IMPOSSIBLE to not enjoy!

Lauren Spear: I think I’ve seen the first one just too many times maybe. *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah, I… hmm.

Lauren Spear: But what did you think of Beetlejuice being confirmed as a demon, more-or-less?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Uhhhhhhhhhhhh…

Lauren Spear: Like, when he’s referred to as a “trickster demon” and everything? That made sense to me too because the name being three times and everything. That’s sort of Demon Rules. Going back to my love of rules. *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. Right. Um. I feel like…

I feel like that was just like a way for her to kind of characterize Beetlejuice to somebody who didn’t know about him. Because he’s also confirmed for just being like a really crappy dude who was a grave robber during the Black Plague.

Lauren Spear: Yeah. What did you think of that?

Is that going to come into your Beetlejuice performances at all?

Lauren Spear (continuing): Has the new backstory influenced your own…?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: I’ve thought about it! About getting… Just not having to do the makeup and just getting a blonde wig and just doing like the dirty clothes. Puttin’ some vomit on my lip or something…

Lauren Spear: *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: It was… It was perfect. I have my own theories, but him being poisoned and it being his own disgusting tendencies that ended him up in that situation…?

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: The fact that he also murdered the person WHILE he’s dying? These are just really good ways to flesh out that character. And all of the Spanish stuff was a good way to expand on his character. Because all of that is in the original movie in little ways.

Lauren Spear: Mmhrmm?

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: There’s that sort of tango or Latin violin music that plays. That’s HIS specific theme.

Lauren Spear: Yeah…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: There’s the “BAUM ba BOM…!” that’s the MOVIE theme, but his theme is that kind of tango thing.

He drinks those beers. The El Conquistador beers that he has sitting all over his lair or whatever.

So, there was just little things like that. Which is why I love that movie. This is altogether why Beetlejuice is, to me, one of the greatest things ever as a movie: Because it is just LOADED with little things that don’t just seem like production design just running away with stuff they wanted to do.

It really seems to me like Tim Burton being more involved in that stuff.

EDITOR’S NOTE: You made it! No more spoilers for Beetlejuice Beetlejuice (2024) from here on out!

And I’ve listened to your conversation with your dad and I’ve read interviews with other people who’ve kind of worked in that group of dozens of non-union artists helping out on that movie… And that story about Tim Burton just being mad at everybody!

Lauren Spear: *chuckles*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And then being like really happy with like… I can’t remember what it was specifically that they were talking about. But it was probably the carousel hat and stuff.

That like…

That was the kind of director, as I understand it, that he was.

Lauren Spear: He was very detail-oriented.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. And, like, I was just watching Batman the other day, and I’d NEVER noticed this before but at the very beginning of the movie the little kid… The little kid whose parents get attacked by the thugs. The little kid is wearing a t-shirt that says “I love Gotham.” It’s got “I heart Gotham” on it.

Lauren Spear: Yeah? *chuckles*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: The guy that Beetlejuice beats… pfft. Beetlejuice. The guy that BATMAN beats up right after that is also wearing the “I heart Gotham” t-shirt! But it’s all dingy and like rundown.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): And, like, this is one of those things like what I was saying in my The Brain That Wouldn’t Die video: I don’t think that people are sitting around going “I’m gonna… I’m gonna put this MESSAGE together and it’s going to be this complex tapestry of poetry.”

But I think it’s that people are so, in a film like that, they’re so contentious of the visual storytelling that little messages start to leak through. Because in a town like Gotham, New York, Whatever, there would be this, like, legacy of people. Little kids with these t-shirts on and then, like, older guys who have the same t-shirt.

And that, to me, is like an immediate metaphor or an immediate sign that this little kid could easily be that guy.

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: These are just the citizens of Gotham. He protects them and he beats the crap out of them.

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And, I dunno! Beetlejuice was LOADED with that! Almost more than any other film!

Lauren Spear: Well, um, “there are many quantities of Beetlejuice fans and, of that, you are the ultimate.” And, with that…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Well, if I’m not the ultimate, I’m high up there with some people, I’m sure.

Lauren Spear: And with that line from

The Brain That Wouldn’t Die…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Oh yeah! *laughs*

Lauren Spear: I’d like to talk to you a little bit about your Brain That Wouldn’t Die video which, with your permission, I’m going to embed within this interview — the transcript for it — so that other people…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Sure!

Lauren Spear: …won’t have to leave to see this film. Because I’ve watched it four times already and I love it. I think it’s a beautiful video essay on a film that isn’t talked about that often.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah!

Lauren Spear: But we only have about two minutes left of this, so…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Oh!

Lauren Spear: …I want to make sure that you talk a little bit about that and also let people know how to get in touch with you and find all your stuff.

 Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah, well, just find me using ALTERN84M. I’m all over the internet as ALTERN84M. So, follow those links or whatever.

But, yeah. That’s… um. That Brain That Wouldn’t Die video… Maybe I should come back and do a longer talk just about that.

Lauren Spear: Oh, yeah. It’s really good.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Because it is a… It surprised ME! Like, I knew I always wanted to say what I said in that video. That, like, there was something more interesting going on below the surface of that film.

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: But then, as I started to work on it, the other thing that I really want to say is just because I read something into this doesn’t mean it’s a good movie. It is still CRAP.

Lauren Spear: *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: But it spoke to me because there was, like, sort of an honesty to it. And then, like, once I started putting the video together, I just kept thinking like, “Oh, well, I’m not going to put that in the video” and then, “No, you know what? If I’m ever going to say anything about The Brain That Wouldn’t Die, I need to say it in this video!”

And it just kept ballooning. And I would do a little research. And I found out about Virginia Leith, who was a really interesting person. And then, like, discovering more and more and more of these little connections to Greek mythology and stuff.

It just ended up turning into something that… I don’t know. It’s been interesting because people have watched it and they get in contact with me and they talk to me, not just about, like, their love of movies, but, like, relationships that they’ve been in!

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: They’re like, “You called me out in that video!” And they’re like… They’re… If they’re sort of in that space still, it gives them something to think about. If they have survived…

*sound warbles & video cuts off abruptly*

*tiny bit of music and then the sound & video come back*

Lauren Spear: Hi! *sheepish chuckle*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Hello!

Okay. Goodbye!! *dives off screen*

Lauren Spear: *laughs* No! No!

You were talking about people who are in the situation might think about leaving and then people who have gotten out can ponder their survival…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. Yeah. And people who have survived a situation like that have gotten in contact with me and just been like… I don’t know.

They were just taken aback by this sort of “sneak attack” that the video does.

Lauren Spear: Yeah. *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: It’s very goofy, very much about… It’s very light! I don’t want it to be depressing content.

Lauren Spear: No. I don’t think it was very depressing, and I was in that situation myself, so… *chuckles*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Okay…

Yeah…

Yeah, yeah! You were one of the people that messaged me and kind of just opened up about some of the stuff you’d been through.

And I guess that kind of goes back to what we were talking about before about the kind of

Catharsis in horror of the Final Girl and the triumph of Good over Evil and things like that.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M (continuing): It can be in these REALLY BAD movies!! *laughs*

Lauren Spear: Yeah. It can!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: And it sort of like speaks to you in a kind of profound way.

So, I’m really very happy with the video and the way it turned out.

Lauren Spear: Yeah. Genuinely, I think that everyone needs to see it! And I’m going to include it with this so that everyone will have no choice but to SEE IT! *laughs*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. Yeah. That’s great! Yeah. Because it really… It ended up being more like a mini documentary than a quick video about something.

It also… It made me kind of stop and go, like, “I need to not just pump out video after video.” Y’know? My next one, I’m gonna take my time with it! Just like I did with that one, you know? I’m going to try and…

Maybe I don’t want to always be super profound. Sometimes I’ll just be making videos about how cool a movie was!

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Not anything super deep. But I do still want everything to be well-researched and just as entertaining as that one turned out to be.

Lauren Spear: Yeah!

Well, um, I’m sorry that we got cut off earlier. That’s… Free Zoom! *laughs* People need to join the HorrorFam.com Patreon so that we can get Professional Zoom!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Right! *laughs* Get on that!

Lauren Spear: But, let’s let everyone know where to find you…

ALTERN84M. I’ve spelled it out here. *gestures to guest board*

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: There it is.

Lauren Spear: And that’s where you are on YouTube, for sure.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Mmhmm.

Lauren Spear: And Instagram.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Instagram. And if I have an account anywhere else that’s what I’ve signed up as. But I pretty much don’t use the other ones. I’m never on Facebook, never on Snapchat, TikTok, and of that.

But, yeah, that’s where you can find me.

Lauren Spear: And, from there, they can get to your Beetlejuice profiles as well…? Because you do have some where you’re…

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah.

Lauren Spear: …exclusively Beetlejuice.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Yeah. It’s Betelgeuse dot Lives. Spelled the “wrong” way, not the right way. With the G-E-U-S-E.

Lauren Spear: Yeah.

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: That’s my name on Instagram for the Beetlejuice stuff. That’s not as active because it’s just the Beetlejuice stuff. But… yup! That’s me!

Lauren Spear: All right. Well, it was great talking to you, Timi Brennan! Also known as ALTERN84M. Thank you for being here!

This was HorrorFam.com Podcast episode number 25! Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Timi Brennan/ALTERN84M: Buh-byeeeeeeee!!

Watch “This Is Your Brain on Toxic Love,” Timi Brennan’s Mini-Documentary on The Brain That Wouldn’t Die (1962)!

Special thanks to Timi Brennan for letting me include this! 🙂

Images for this post were obtained in the following ways: Provided by Timi Brennan, purchased on MovieStillsDB and CineMaterial, screencapped from trailers and owned DVDs, and/or created by Lauren Spear.